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| จาก อัลบั้ม Asiancorrespondent |
Source: asiancorrespondent.com
Ref: Article By Andrew Spooner
This is part two of a November 28 interview with fugitive Red Shirt leader, Arisman Pongruangrong.
Once again I have attempted to let Arisman give his point of view without offering either a positive or negative opinion.
What is interesting is that after part one of this interview was published most people who left comments here and on other websites and blogs just seemed to have their previous view of Arisman confirmed. Those who thought he was a terrorist thug still believe that to be the case while those who saw him as a valiant freedom fighter weren’t swayed to think otherwise.
So, in summary, did this interview tell us much about Arisman that we didn't already know? Probably not. But he is still an outspoken figure whose journey from soft-focus teeny popstar to firebrand radical makes for an intriguing story.
You can find Andrew Spooner on twitter - @andrewspooner
In early October 2010 a bomb exploded in Nonthaburi killing several people. The Red Shirts were blamed by some commentators. Can you confirm or deny that elements of the Red Shirts were involved?
It’s hard to say because we don’t know who the people are who planted this bomb. It’s possible it indicated a personal action taken in revenge by Red Shirt sympathisers. Don’t forget that there are so many people who are so angry about the government’s actions that they might just carry out such acts by themselves. They are obviously not very professional as they blew themselves up. What’s important is the core Red Shirt movement want a peaceful solution to the political situation.
There have been rumours that elements in the Red Shirts are linking up with insurgents in the south of Thailand. Can you give us any information on this?
I don’t think this has happened. The insurgents in the south are very professional at using weapons and planting bombs. From my network of contacts I am almost certain that no Red Shirt has trained with them. I have to say that if the Red Shirts are successful in the future we would look to give the three southern provinces a great deal of autonomy.
Apart from violence the other main criticism of the Red Shirts during the Ratchaprasong occupation was your refusal to accept Abhisit’s offer of a November election. Why did you refuse this offer?
First, Abhisit is not a gentleman and you cannot trust his word. Look how he came into power. Basically Abhisit put forward unacceptable pre-conditions which included that the Red Shirts must not take part in any protests during the period before any election would take place. The deal was that if we protested at all, and at any time, Abhisit would not stage the election. In such a situation how can the Red Shirt leadership control everyone? It was wide open that the government might try to create the situation whereby they wouldn’t have to hold an election. They’ve done this before. For example, what happened when Abhisit’s car was supposedly attacked at the Interior Ministry in 2009 - the truth is that Abhisit wasn’t in that car.
Also don’t forget that the government also employed the Blue Shirts to create and provoke trouble and chaos on the streets in 2009 - so how can we be expected to believe Abhisit? Anyway, Abhisit doesn’t have real power. He is just a puppet. And, even worse, he is the kind of puppet that can brutally oppress and kill people in order to cling to power.
Does CRES have ultimate power over the Abhisit government?
No. There is someone above CRES. Those people have also been trying to intervene in the Democrat Party dissolution case and to control the Constitutional Court judges. The Democrats are just a tool of the amart. They are used in an attempt to convince the world that Thailand is “democratic”.
Who has the real power?
The amart, which consists of Surayud Chulanont and the Privy Council. They plan things and make decisions and then General Prem Tinsulanonda tells the government what to do. Look at the Democrat Party dissolution case [NB the final judgement of this case was delivered on 29 November 2010, shortly after this interview], there is someone trying to lobby the court and have the case turned down. If the elite don’t want a political party dissolved they can just order that to happen. The outcome of this case is going to make people really angry.
What would have been an acceptable offer from Abhisit and government in May 2010?
First they needed to pass through parliament the date for the dissolution of parliament and establish when the election would’ve been held. Second, they needed to find the people responsible for the attack on the Red Shirts on the April 10. Twenty one Red Shirts died that day. Third, they had to lift the State of Emergency.
Given all that happened during the crackdown and the number of people who died do you regret not taking Abhisit’s offer at the time?
No, I have no regrets. I wouldn’t have accepted the offer as the government were never sincere. The government was so afraid that if they dissolved the parliament that they would lose any election that they tried to fabricate the story that the Red Shirts wanted to overthrow the monarchy. That was completely false. The government even claimed that they received the order “directly from above” but it doesn’t matter where the order came from they had no right to use violence against people and kill them. In the near future they will try and create the conditions for the army to stage a coup by using the PAD as a tool. There is unlikely to be any elections for a few years. At least until they can fix “the problem”. Surayud and Prem will try and cling to power as long as possible. They would even be prepared to bring PAD members into government.
What will happen first - election or coup?
Absolutely the coup first. The planners of the coup will be the Surayud group, including Prasong Soonsiri, Chamlong Srimuang, the Privy Council and high ranking army officers, including Prayuth Chan-ocha, under Prem’s control. The PAD will also do a lot of work and will be out on the street. They might try to make the PAD and the Red Shirts fight one another by creating a chaotic situation that could involve grenade attacks or other acts of violence. This could create the conditions in which the army could stage a coup. Therefore the election is unlikely.
If there is a coup will there be any organised reaction from either the Red Shirts or pro-democracy elements in the military?
The Red Shirts would openly oppose any coup. Some of the army might join this opposition as well. But the elite will try to get rid of the Red Shirt leaders and any crackdown could be even more brutal - this could lead to civil war. For example the army might try and assassinate a few important people in the government, like Abhisit, Suthep and Newin and then blame it on the Red Shirts.
How many people, in your opinion, do you think the amart would be prepared to kill in order to keep power?
As many as they need.
Do you have any plans to return to Thailand either underground or as a legitimate political figure?
Well I must admit that I love Thailand and Thai people very much. I really want to go back and help develop the country and create democracy. One day in the future I will return.
What is your opinion of the latest wave of Red Shirt leaders and activists such as Sombat Boonngarm-anong?
I really like what he is doing. He uses actions that are not covered by the State of Emergency and this shows that Sombat is smarter than CRES. These actions give space to people to express their opinions as well.
If you could change one thing from the April and May Red Shirt protest what would it be?
After April 10 I would try to convince people to stop the action. Our people were already being killed by that point and we should have dispersed the demonstration and demanded that those responsible for attacking and killing us were punished. But the government should’ve taken our offer as well. Overall we and the government should’ve stopped at the point when there was a loss of life. So if the government had taken our offer things would’ve turned out better for everybody.
Do you regret all the violence that occurred?
Absolutely. Both myself and the rest of the Red Shirt leadership never thought that the government would act in such a brutal way. The government must take responsibility for the deaths of the people, after all, they are the leaders of the country.
I want to let my friends who are in prison know that many people still support them. And I want to ask to the government not to provoke the people by using “double-standards”. The government are lying about the reconciliation plan in order to gain support from the international community. It is clear that they are not in reconciliation. For example they are still hunting down, arresting and imprisoning the Red Shirts. Recently they employed one high ranking police officer to shoot at the Red Shirts and when this police officer was arrested they claimed he was mentally ill. If the government are serious about reconciliation they must release all Red Shirt prisoners. These prisoners don’t need an amnesty law because they are all innocent. The reconciliation must be done under the framework of the law so that the murdering of innocent civilians cannot just be forgotten and dismissed. The government must also compensate those victims.
Any final message to either the government or the Red Shirts?
I want to thank those who love democracy and who have a courageous heart. And also those who show concern for the Red Shirt leadership. We have a lot of things to do as our country is undemocratic. Our country must improve the equality of opportunity including access to education. For the government I want them to step down and return power to the Thai people. I also want to tell the high-ranking army officers and the ordinary ranks that it is now time to serve and stand beside Thai people. Don’t just serve the amart and kill ordinary Thai citizens.
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